Profit, Pricing & the Power of SEO: A Conversation with Jamie Trull (Part 1)

Today I welcome financial educator and profit strategist Jamie Trull. 

We talk about the transformative power of understanding business finances, pricing strategies, and how SEO can drive real results. 

From doubling prices overnight to lowering ad spend through smarter targeting, Jamie shares tangible strategies and inspirational insights.

Plus, a sneak peek into her brand new book, "Hidden Profit" designed to empower small business owners.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• Pricing Can Be a Game Changer: Doubling your prices can lead to increased profit with fewer sales—and less burnout.
• Your Labor Counts: Entrepreneurs often forget to factor in their own time and effort when pricing products.
• The SEO Advantage: SEO isn’t just for visibility—it drives qualified traffic, reduces ad costs, and improves conversions.
• Digital Footprint Matters: A strong online presence across platforms improves trust with both users and AI search engines.
• Finances Are Foundational: Whether you're earning your first dollar or scaling toward 7 figures, understanding profit levers is essential.

💬 Memorable Quotes:

"It is possible to make more by doing less." – Jamie Trull

"SEO helped us lower ad costs and increase conversions by bringing in the right people." – Jamie Trull

"Money may not buy happiness, but it can buy opportunity." – Jamie Trull

✅ Listener Action Items:

• Evaluate Your Pricing: Are you undervaluing your products or services? Consider testing a price increase.
• Audit Your Time: Compare your revenue per product or service to the time it takes you to deliver it.
• Invest in SEO: Leverage blogs, images, and videos to build a cohesive and authoritative digital presence.

Hey creative entrepreneur—does SEO feel confusing, overwhelming, or just plain impossible to figure out? You’re not alone. That’s why I created the AI SEO Foundations course, powered by CrystalGPT: your personal AI SEO coach designed for busy, creative business owners like you.

Crystal GPT walks you through what matters most for your website. Head to SEOin7days.com (with a 7!) and get started today—let’s make your brand easy to find and impossible to ignore.

Does SEO feel confusing, overwhelming, or just plain impossible to figure out? You’re not alone. That’s why I created the AI SEO Foundations course, powered by Crystal GPT: your personal AI SEO coach designed for busy, creative business owners like you.

Ditch the overwhelm and discover what SEO can do for your business! Head to SEOin7days.com (with the number 7!) and get started today—let’s make your brand easy to find and impossible to ignore.

Chapters

• 0:00 Jamie Trull: Especially women tend to put a strong arm up and
• 1:36 Jamie's Impact on Business
• 2:18 Pricing Strategies and Profitability
• 4:36 SEO Success Stories
• 5:49 The Power of SEO in Business
• 12:31 Writing and Publishing a Book
• 15:31 Book Content and Structure
• 16:26 Financial Basics for Business
• 17:01 Organizing Business Finances
• 17:40 Profit Levers and Strategies
• 18:02 Using Profits for Positive Change
• 22:46 Common Financial Mistakes
• 24:14 Understanding the Importance of Financial Management
• 24:36 Balancing Marketing and Finances

Transcript

[00:00:00] Introduction and Guest Welcome

[00:00:00] Jamie Trull: Especially women tend to put a strong arm up and they're like, I don't need that. I don't need that much money. Like it's like a badge of honor to not be motivated by money. Right? But we don't have to be motivated by money to realize, hey, money may not buy happiness exactly, but there's a lot of stuff it can buy.

And it can buy food for hungry children, right? It can buy opportunities for people who don't have them.

It can buy time with our families and like memories. There's just so many things

that we can do with it. 

[00:00:26] Crystal Waddell: Welcome to the Simple and Smart SEO show podcast.

I'm your host, Crystal Waddell, here to bridge the gap between SEO strategy and real world business success.

Whether you're an entrepreneur, marketer, or SEO enthusiast, this is your place to learn, share, and build a brand that stands out. 

So grab a coffee or your favorite tea. And let's dive into Smarter SEO for your business.

[00:00:47] Crystal: Welcome back to the Simple and smart SEO show podcast.

Wow. So excited to be here with, I would probably call her one of my online heroes.

We've actually become somewhat friends over the [00:01:00] years.

And a little bit like colleagues as well.

I really appreciate my guest today. Her name is Jamie Trull.

And she is a profit strategist at JamieTrull.com. And also balancecfo dot com. 

She's here today to talk about her new book.

Jamie, welcome to the Simple and Smart SEO Show podcast.

I'm so excited that you're here.

[00:01:20] Jamie Trull: I am so excited to be on here. And I can't believe it took this long to

do this.

I feel like I've known you forever, but thank you.

Also, I'll take hero. But thank you for not calling me a guru.

'Cause I have a visceral reaction to the word guru 

[00:01:35] Crystal: Well, I am glad I didn't say that. 

[00:01:36] Jamie's Impact on Business

[00:01:37] Crystal: And just to set the stage so people know. Jamie actually saved my business a few years ago. I was the first person to sign up for,

[00:01:45] Jamie Trull: Mm-hmm. Yep.

[00:01:46] Crystal: your first big course, right? so that's like my claim to fame in Jamie's world.

But one of the things I learned in the course is that I could sell zero photo props for the rest of my life and make as much or more money than I was making at the time.[00:02:00] 

Because my pricing was so bad and so low. And I couldn't figure out.

I was like, where's all my money going?

So Jamie's insight helped me to double my prices overnight and become profitable immediately! After struggling for years.

And so that's why, you know, you're my hero. Because otherwise I wouldn't be in business anymore.

[00:02:18] Pricing Strategies and Profitability

[00:02:18] Jamie Trull: I love those stories because it is possible to make more by doing less.

That's like one of the biggest lessons that it takes a while to learn in business. 'cause we're so used to just doing more and more and more and more and more. And we think that that's the equation to success, but it really isn't.

That's the equation to burnout.

[00:02:36] Crystal: you're exactly right. And I had heard of terms like average order value. And that type of thing.

[00:02:41] Jamie Trull: Mm-hmm.

[00:02:42] Crystal: But it was after taking your course and learning like, there's different levers that you can pull to become more profitable. I was like, oh my gosh.

I could create a different product that is at a price point where I make more than something else that takes more time.

And for example, I make collages. [00:03:00] And so I had photo collages and then I also had these giant photo props.

Giant photo props take about five minutes to pick up, put in a box, send on their way.

The collages take days, you know?

[00:03:10] Jamie Trull: Yeah.

[00:03:10] Crystal: Essentially, the price points were about the same.

And I realized I need to start focusing more on the photo props. And I was so scared. I was so scared the day you told me I needed to raise my prices.

Or I was, you know, gonna make $0.

I doubled 'em overnight. I was afraid people weren't gonna buy 'em.

I've sold more. And there's been times where I've sold less, but I've made more.

So, all of the

[00:03:31] Jamie Trull: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:31] Crystal: things that you taught me, they all, they all came true. So thank you.

[00:03:35] Jamie Trull: I love it. I love it. That's, that is why I enjoy doing what I do because I think those little just like little tweaks and little aha moments.

And yours was specific, like you, I was like, you can stair step, you know, you can like gradually increase your prices and you were like, Nope, I did it all overnight.

[00:03:51] Crystal: Yep.

[00:03:52] Jamie Trull: I'm not working like this anymore.

Oftentimes we forget to factor in our own labor, right?

Especially as an owner, as a solopreneur.

Your labor probably doesn't show up on [00:04:00] your profit and loss as a solopreneur, right? So you kind of forget to value that in the equation.

But if you're making, you know, $2 an hour on one thing.

And $50 an hour on another thing.

That's one of the levers I talk about for profit levers, is mix.

Like, which one should you sell more of?

And then also let's look at pricing for the one that's not making enough. So you were such a great student and I do remember you being the first person to buy.

You were kind of like that virtual, first dollar, you know, like if I had a storefront, I would put your purchase.

You'd be that first dollar that I was like, oh my gosh, someone bought this thing.

You know, what, 7, 6, 7 years ago now? It's been a while. 

[00:04:36] SEO Success Stories

[00:04:36] Jamie Trull: And now we've been able to work with you on lots of things. And now you actually help me with my SEO. So, for those

[00:04:41] Crystal: Yeah.

[00:04:42] Jamie Trull: that don't know, crystal is my SEO person.

She helps me SEO-ify our blogs. And really like spread our message.

I've just been shocked to see, you know, we were a content machine. We're making all this content for YouTube.

We weren't doing as well on the blog front. We weren't on Pinterest at all. And then Crystal kind of came [00:05:00] in and it was like, you know, SEO was one of those things that can be slower to see.

But within like three to six months we saw a massive increase in traffic, which led to purchases, which led to audience growth.

I mean, it was, it was, it was just incredible. So I'm really thankful for you as well, crystal. So you are, you are the not guru.

You're my hero from an SEO perspective.

[00:05:19] Crystal: it's fun to apply the concepts as somebody else's business.

I'm e-commerce, you're education uh,

[00:05:24] Jamie Trull: Yeah. 

[00:05:25] Crystal: and financial literacy.

[00:05:26] Jamie Trull: Yeah.

[00:05:26] Crystal: And so it was interesting to see how SEO became another engine for you. And

[00:05:32] Jamie Trull: Yes.

[00:05:33] Crystal: one of the things I remember that you guys said was that not only did it drive more traffic, but I think it also lowered your ad costs for retargeting.

So cool to hear how those levers can, you know, be shifted and, and impacted in different ways.

[00:05:49] The Power of SEO in Business

[00:05:49] Jamie Trull: That was the absolute biggest thing that I wasn't even expecting.

I think like when we hired you, I was like, okay, we just need, you know, to show up in Google search. Right?

And you don't realize, you [00:06:00] know, most of the time from Google search people aren't necessarily going to purchase. Sometimes they do, from blogs.

But the point was.

If they go to my blog, I know they're interested in a particular topic and now I know exactly how to target them.

It all happens to us as consumers. We're used to it. We're like, oh wait, I just went on this website and all of a sudden I'm seeing ads on Facebook.

Well, that's because of the beauty of SEO, right? Like that's really, I don't make money from ads.

I'm not trying to, you know, put ads all over my website or anything like that.

I really do want to, you know, create, make sales. And so that was amazing.

It slashed our lead costs for all of our webinars and things like that, that we were running.

Because not only did we have a great audience.

[00:06:41] Crystal: Yeah.

[00:06:42] Jamie Trull: So we're able to create a lookalike off of that really specific audience that was interested in that topic.

So that was huge. In just being able to, you know really get the people who were most interested in what we had to say.

And not only that, so this is the other thing, I don't even know if I've told you this.

[00:07:00] We also saw an increase in just overall conversion.

So not only would we have lower ad costs. But they were the right people, right?

So we're getting them in and they're more likely to buy than they would have been had they just kind of stumbled across our ad when we were just, kind of throwing spaghetti at the wall, right?

[00:07:16] Crystal: Yeah.

[00:07:16] Jamie Trull: it really is worthwhile from that standpoint as well.

Even in a business that isn't like a physical product business. It's more of an information based business.

It's been a great addition to our strategy.

[00:07:27] Crystal: Yeah. And you were one of the first to the scene with like family management company education.

And you really like found these different keyword clusters and topics that you could dominate.

And I laugh because,

[00:07:41] Jamie Trull: You found those keywords that I could dominate, but yeah.

[00:07:44] Crystal: that you brought the content.

Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:48] Jamie Trull: Yep.

[00:07:48] Crystal: I typically follow behind Jamie and the content team.

And what's amazing is that now people are talking about omnichannel marketing and

[00:07:57] Jamie Trull: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:58] Crystal: it's so important to be here and there.

And you could [00:08:00] be found everywhere in search. Well, Jamie was already doing that.

The content team was already doing that. They were on YouTube. They're on all the socials, all of this stuff.

So doing all the really hard work of positioning the brand. And then SEO just came behind and solidified that.

So when people saw the brand on different channels, they could easily search for either Jamie Trull or they could search for Balance CFO.

Or they could search for a combination of those things with family management company.

And I see some of the bigger names in SEO come through on my emails. And they're like, oh, you should do this on YouTube. Or it's time to optimize social media.

And I'm just like, we've been doing that, you know?

[00:08:40] Jamie Trull: We got that part. And that is the thing. But work smarter, not harder. And I feel like that's like. Honestly the tagline of SEO.

It's like, you're doing the work anyway. And, and I think that that's true in social media.

Like there's so much work to put out the content and then if you're not optimizing it, you become just like, essentially a machine.

And you're gonna wear out. And you really have to [00:09:00] optimize. Like, I can now take a vacation and know that it's completely fine. I don't have to be there every day.

Right?

It really is helpful to have kind of a more steady stream going on. So that was really a gift that SEO can give.

Yeah, Sure, I make sure I'd have my, my YouTube videos every single week.

But everything else, you know? Can run in the background. And it compounds.

And that's the other nice thing about SEO is that it is this great compounding way to be seen.

That just, continues to help your business.

So I've been really grateful for that, for sure.

[00:09:32] Crystal: well, mutual admiration society. But thank you!

[00:09:35] Jamie Trull: Well, that's different talents, right?

Different people have different talents and they want what you have to offer.

[00:09:40] Crystal: Yeah. and I appreciate it because you saw something in me that I didn't really fully see in myself.

I love SEO. But I am also very excited about just like overall business optimization.

And that's one thing I really enjoy about what you teach because you're not just teaching the financial part of it.

It's like, yes, you're a certified public accountant.

You [00:10:00] have that experience working for like Fortune five hundreds and all that type of stuff.

But you're also a business owner.

And you are one of the few people on the internet that can teach from the perspective of: this is the right thing to do.

And this is how to do it from this perspective we all share as business owners.

[00:10:17] Jamie Trull: Yeah. 

[00:10:18] Crystal: It's been so great! And the fact that your book is coming out in a few weeks.

It's like right on time. Because I need a refresher myself in some of the practices.

I've got my book on pre-order.

But I'm excited to jump into it because I feel like I'm an even a better position now, obviously than when we met six years ago. there's also some things I need to go back and shore up. So.

[00:10:39] Jamie Trull: And I think that's true always, right? It's cyclical. And so I think that that's one of the differences.

When we think about information, we think about like, oh, we need to learn this thing, right?

But it's really about creating those cyclical processes where we're always going back and you're gonna look at it.

I think about this book, for example, right? And I wrote it for people at various [00:11:00] stages of business.

But typically, in that under a million dollars of revenue.

And my goal is really that , you're gonna read it the first time and take certain things from it that are most important at that time.

Right? There's a ton of strategies in this book.

You're not gonna want to put all of them into place at the same time. I actually don't advise that you do that in the book, right? Because it's a little too much.

But then, I want it to be like a reference manual. Where when you're like feeling stuck with something or you're like, oh man, I need to kind of get my juices flowing again.

That it's something you can pick up and say like, okay, how, what do I see now in this? Right? And the same was true for my programs.

People would go back through them and see different things at different times.

Because that's what we're meant to kind of pick up, the things that are gonna be most relevant.

And help us through potentially a block that we're having at that time.

You know? So for you, when you came through financial fitness formula, it was like the pricing and the profit margins was like, oh my gosh, I needed this right now. This is the most important thing. You know, we covered other topics.

But that for you, was like the key. And I, I really, that's kind of how I see this book as being.[00:12:00] 

Not just like a read it one time and then you know you've got it. No, it's something that you can reference and like, I want to see people with their sticky notes on the different parts and like re-looking at it.

It's much more interesting than like a typical reference type of book would be, I think.

I try to come at numbers from a little bit of a more jargon free zone. Where it's easy to understand.

But I really am excited to kind of finally get this out into the world for people to read and hopefully reread.

[00:12:27] Crystal: Yeah. So what's it been like? Writing a book and putting it out into the universe?

[00:12:31] Writing and Publishing a Book

[00:12:31] Jamie Trull: It's so different than everything else that I do.

And I say that largely because it's so much slower. So I'm sure a lot of people that are, you know, listening to this are business owners. And so, you're probably like I am. Where it's like, I have an idea. And then I'm like, okay, I wanna put this idea into motion.

Right? So you'd start taking the steps. If you have a team, you start outsourcing things. Or you make a plan and you do the thing.

And typically, from ideation to launch, like I can do that in 30 days or [00:13:00] less. Most of the time. That's what I'm used to doing, right? I can create an educational program, I can like I can do these amazing things.

Book publishing, especially traditional book publishing. Is so slow and painstaking. And for me, that has been the hardest thing. Is because I'm investing my time. But the payoff on that is so far in advance, right?

Like SEO is is, it's a little bit like that. 'cause you kind of gotta wait. You kinda gotta, there's a waiting game with it.

You're like, I'm putting in the work now. But I'm not gonna see that return yet. So I just have to hope and trust. That the return's gonna be there at the end of the day.

So this has been a three year process, almost. I started the book proposal almost three years ago.

By the time it comes out, it will have been about three years from when I said, yes, I'm going to, you know, write this book proposal.

You just go through book proposals, then agents, then publishers.

Then writing the actual book. Then editing and editing more.

And copy editing. And like all, all the things, right?

Like cover art and [00:14:00] blurbs from the author. It's just, it's never ending. It's literally a never ending process. And I'm just like, oh my God, can we be done?

Like, I just wanna put it out in the world.

[00:14:08] Crystal: I can't wait to do this again!

[00:14:10] Jamie Trull: yeah, I finished writing this book last, uh, it was last June.

So it's been done, in terms of like the writing part, for over a year.

So that's the other thing is it's like I just want it out there. I'm ready for it to be in people's hands.

It's time, it's time.

[00:14:26] Crystal: Yeah. 

[00:14:26] Book Content and Structure

[00:14:26] Crystal: So how did you choose what to put in the book?

[00:14:29] Jamie Trull: Yeah, I think that that was a process. 'cause that's the other thing.

You kind of start with about a million different ideas.

And a lot of people, like when they write books, they do struggle with having enough to fill. That was not my problem.

I had way more than I needed. And so I had to really think about, just like an educational program, right?

Like what do people really need and how do I guide them through and how do I divide this up into a way that makes sense?

So I think once I kind of figured out, what is the end goal of this? What do I want people to walk away with?

And my answer [00:15:00] to that was, well, depending on where they're coming in, they're gonna come in with different background in finances.

So I want to appeal to the people who literally don't know what a profit and loss is.

But also appeal to people that are kind of at that stage where they're really trying to scale up, right?

So I had to kind of start with like, let's base level everything. 

[00:15:21] Financial Basics for Business

[00:15:21] Jamie Trull: So the first part of the book is all just like, let's base level. What's a profit and loss?

What's a balance sheet? And even if you feel like you know all of that stuff, I guarantee you're gonna learn things you didn't realize. Right?

So there's a lot of just information on, what is this? Taxes.

Let's re-cover the basics here. And sort of like that foundational part.

So that's kind of part one.

Which is really just to, to hopefully give everybody a little bit of a crash course.

But in words that again, make sense and they can understand. So great reference manual. Lots of tables. I've put lots of examples, like all the things.

And then the second part is where it moves into

[00:15:56] Organizing Business Finances

[00:15:56] Jamie Trull: Getting organized. So how do you get [00:16:00] organized in your finances?

And what are the different duties you need to be doing?

I talk about different things like ultimately we are responsible for compliance in our business.

Which is like all the yucky tax stuff that we have to do. 'cause we don't wanna get in trouble, right?

Like that's tax and legal. That's all compliance. And then there's cashflow, which is like day-to-day, making sure we can pay our bills. Right? We need cash flow.

And then the strategy side, which is my favorite.

But we kind of have to have the others to get there. Strategy is really about, you know, the profit levers, pricing. Costs, investing back into our business.

What are we offering?

All the different things. So we talk about that within there, too. 

[00:16:35] Profit Levers and Strategies

[00:16:35] Jamie Trull: And then that leads us into our third part of the book.

Which is really about the profit levers. So it goes into depth about what lever to pull and why. And we talk about what they are, how they can help you.

How even just small tweaks, you don't have to double your prices like Crystal did.

You can, but even like two to 3% tweaks can make a huge difference on your bottom line, right? So we talk about that. And then the fourth. 

[00:16:57] Using Profits for Positive Change

[00:16:57] Jamie Trull: Section of the book is my favorite.

Which [00:17:00] is where we go into, okay, now we have a more profitable business. What do we do with that? Right? Like, how do we use that to build like the future that we want for ourselves? And the future that we want for this world?

And so that's where I get to kind of be a little bit more inspirational.

And talk about my visions for positive change in the world that we can make as small business owners.

'Cause sometimes it feels like we're kind of on an island by ourselves.

I want us to be able to tap into that collective energy. And realize like the impact that we can have, businesses on the world.

This book isn't just for women business owners, but that's what I am.

And I have a lot of heart for, you know, women business owners, marginalized communities.

The more wealth in the hands of people that are going to do good with it. The better world we are going to have.

Especially women tend to put a strong arm up and they're like, I don't need that. I don't need that much money. Like it's like a badge of honor to not be motivated by money. Right? But we don't have to be motivated by money to. Realize, hey, money may not buy happiness.

Exactly, [00:18:00] but there's a lot of stuff it can buy. And it can buy food for hungry children, right? It can buy opportunities for people who don't have them.

It can buy time with our families and like, memories. There's just so many things that we can do with it.

[00:18:12] Crystal: And you mentioned that this was the book that you felt like you needed.

[00:18:15] Jamie Trull: Once I kind of realized, okay, what do I wanna talk about?

It just took this form and we moved things around like crazy. And then when it finally got to this final form with the four parts, it felt really right.

It's the exact journey that people are gonna go on. And again, different sections of the book are gonna resonate differently at different times.

So like very early on in business section one is gonna be critical, right? Like we had a baseline.

But then depending on if you're bigger in business, if you've already kind of passed through some of those things.

It might be time to just really get you excited about your business again. And the positive change that it can make, you know?

[00:18:48] Crystal: do you know any moment early on where you felt like there was some sort of insight that you didn't have, that you were missing?

That was keeping you from getting where you're trying to [00:19:00] go?

[00:19:00] Jamie Trull: you know what's funny? There are so few books specifically on business finances, like Real Strategies. There are a million different thought leader books, and I love those too, right? Like I'll read Buyback Your Time. All kinds of great, rocket fuel. Like there's some great thought leader books for business owners.

But sometimes they don't feel like they apply to, like the on the ground businesses, right? Like we're talking micro business owners. We're talking boutique owners. Pet sitters.

All just people who aren't necessarily trying to get venture capital funding and have, 10,000 people work for them and all of that, right?

Real, and I don't wanna call it lifestyle businesses because I think that kind of devalues it to a degree.

But the real on the ground people doing, putting in the work. The real heart of small business. And so while I love those books, it's like, where is the practical, like, how do I do this, though?

[00:19:52] Crystal: Yeah.

[00:19:53] Jamie Trull: Right? Like, like really, like I get what you're saying and I'm, I'm excited about it.

But I'm like, but now I [00:20:00] have to like figure out. Understand a profit and loss statement and what it means for me, right?

And now I figure out how to organize my financials and like what's deductible and not.

And again, at that stage in business, we don't always have access to, you know, all the, the people at our disposal to ask those questions to.

You may not have a whole financial team when you're younger in business.

Because it just, it's out. It's not attainable like from a financial perspective. Maybe somebody's filing your taxes at the end of the year.

But they're not giving you like that proactive strategy.

Which means, we are our own CFO. Like we are the chief financial officer of our business, which a lot of people aren't super comfortable with, right?

They're like, oh, no. Numbers. I don't know. But it is you. If you don't have one, it's you.

[00:20:41] Crystal: Yeah.

[00:20:41] Jamie Trull: Right? And we can hone those skills. And it's not as hard as we think that it is.

[00:20:45] Crystal: I think it's hard to confront the realities.

I really enjoyed what I was doing. It gave me a sense of pride that somebody wanted to buy something that I created. So, I had that martyr mentality.

Maybe because I was a teacher [00:21:00] previously.

But it was

[00:21:01] Jamie Trull: Oh yeah.

[00:21:01] Crystal: okay if I'm not making any money or if I don't

[00:21:03] Jamie Trull: The teachers and the creatives, right? Like it's Yes. And you're both!

[00:21:07] Crystal: I know. I got that double whammy over here.

[00:21:10] Jamie Trull: yep. ​

[00:21:15] Crystal: oh, it's okay. I'm, you know, I'm feeling fulfilled. But it was like, yeah, kind of breaking through that, that mindset of like, yes, it's okay to make money.

Even as I've edited some of the case studies and testimonials from people who've benefited from your programs, it seems like there's kind of common themes and common challenges.

And so I was just kind of wondering if like, off the top of your head, maybe a couple of the top mistakes maybe that we tend to make.

[00:21:41] Common Financial Mistakes

[00:21:41] Jamie Trull: I think the biggest one is often just ignoring it, you know, finances in general, right? So it's kind of that closing our eyes and just hoping everything goes well.

And it's kind of like, like, just to take it back to the SEO, right?

Like I, I love. Crystal, you're [00:22:00] so intentional, right? Like everything you do is intentional.

There are strategies behind this. There's a reason that we do this.

Before Crystal, we had accidental SEO sometimes. So like occasionally something would like hit and we're like, oh, what did we do? I don't know. But that worked.

And all of a sudden we're getting all this traffic, right?

Like there was no strategy behind it. We were just like let's try this.

And it's like that with numbers too, I feel like where sometimes we can like accidentally, all of a sudden we're like doing well and we're like, oh. Okay.

But if we don't have the strategy to back that up and make it more sustainable, right?

It feels like, like we're always like waiting for the other shoe to drop. It's like, okay, this, this is working now, but will it always work?

And when you have numbers to back you up and you have strategy to back you up, you can feel a lot more confident in the decisions that you make.

And even in taking risks, right? Or investing money into something.

Because you've done the math.

And you're making the best decision you can with actual data, right? Like we both love data, just different types of data.

[00:22:55] Crystal: Yeah, and I can't make cool pivot tables out of it.

But yeah, I do love some data.

[00:22:59] Jamie Trull: [00:23:00] I am an Excel nerd. That is very true. That is my happy place that,

[00:23:03] Crystal: there a, is there a bonus in how to make pivot tables in this book?

[00:23:07] Jamie Trull: I mean, there could be.

[00:23:08] Crystal: could be, yeah. 

[00:23:09] Understanding the Importance of Financial Management

[00:23:09] Crystal: most entrepreneurs hit the ground running so

[00:23:13] Jamie Trull: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:14] Crystal: hard. Just trying to generate. Leads, sales, whatever. I've never had an example of an entrepreneur

[00:23:20] Jamie Trull: Yeah.

[00:23:21] Crystal: to follow.

That's actually doing those practical things. So I feel like this is also very helpful because this is how you manage the full picture.

[00:23:31] Jamie Trull: Yeah. 

[00:23:31] Balancing Marketing and Finances

[00:23:31] Jamie Trull: Well, and there's two sides of the coin, right? You've got the marketing piece of things.

And that's also where SEO comes in. Our marketing is like, it's a volume play.

But maybe you're bringing people in.

Going back to your business where you're making letters and everything like that, right?

If you can have all the traffic in the world, but if your profit margins aren't sustainable.

If you're not making money off of each of those sales.

You're just burning out, right? You're not actually gonna be taking home more money at the end of the day.

[00:24:00] And so that's why I think you have to have both.

Like oftentimes people love the marketing stuff.

It's more exciting, like, I'll be honest, it's more exciting.

Because sales are just more exciting than managing the money that you have. They just are.

But. I'm a big fan of like, no, those two have to go hand in hand because you need to have your finances together, right?

Like if you have a bucket and your bucket is leaking.

And you're just like, I'm gonna put more water in the bucket and that'll fix the problem. It's like, no.

It's still a leaky bucket. You're just working harder to turn up the pressure.

I think very strongly that it is kind of this balance that you have to have, both sides of the coin.

I think people will. Ignore the finance part. In the very beginning, it is more about marketing, though. I will say in the very beginning of a business, you gotta figure out what your offer is, how to sell it, will people buy it, all of those things, right?

I can't teach you how to manage money that you don't have.

But once you have some money coming in, that's when we have to get straight with our finances. And then we can turn that faucet back on, right?

Like once we know we're [00:25:00] profitable on each and every one of those sales, then you can go like bananas on the marketing and the SEO and all the things.

And you're gonna see the biggest bang for your buck. 

[00:25:08] Crystal: with SEO. A lot of people think blogging.

[00:25:11] Jamie Trull: Yep.

There is such a thing as image, SEO that can benefit you. You have the videos. Like your YouTube presence is so strong.

[00:25:19] Crystal: That's a huge driver.

[00:25:20] Jamie Trull: Yeah.

[00:25:20] Crystal: Not to mention it's a Google product.

[00:25:23] Jamie Trull: Yep.

[00:25:23] Crystal: these Google products work together.

I hope people can take away like why you're so well positioned for LLMS. And like ChatGPT, Gemini, showing up in AI search. It's because your presence across the internet creates context for Google.

That computers can understand and make connections from one to the other.

[00:25:43] Jamie Trull: Yeah.

[00:25:43] Crystal: oh, this Jamie is this Jamie and

[00:25:46] Jamie Trull: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:47] Crystal: about these topics and so does this, Jamie. And that builds the trust on their side.

You know, like however the metric is, is added up I guess.

[00:25:56] Jamie Trull: Yeah.

[00:25:57] Crystal: but that's why people in the future [00:26:00] are going to have success with AI search.

[00:26:03] Jamie Trull: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:03] Crystal: They have built a digital footprint. That the internet recognizes. No matter where they're walking. Whether they're walking on Instagram. Or TikTok. Or YouTube or, you know, on a blog.

Or on words on a page.

[00:26:15] Jamie Trull: And I've had people tell me that, I've had people tell me like, chat GPT gave me as a source. Or whatever it was.

I have been quoted to me on ChatGPT. And I'm like, that's me. Thanks.

[00:26:26] Crystal: that's right. I think I remember you saying that. Yeah. Oh my

[00:26:29] Jamie Trull: Yeah.

[00:26:29] Crystal: that story. So, but that,

[00:26:32] Jamie Trull: I'm my own source.

[00:26:32] Crystal: And people wanna know, they're like, what's the secret to showing up in AI search? It's creating a digital footprint that is trustworthy.

[00:26:41] Jamie Trull: Yep.

[00:26:41] Crystal: That's referable. And how

[00:26:43] Jamie Trull: Yes.

[00:26:44] Crystal: trustworthy and referable? You create content that helps people.

And you've done that on YouTube, on socials, on your website.

And so I just think it's really neat how that all works together.

[00:26:55] Jamie Trull: Absolutely.

[00:26:56] Crystal: Back to the book. 

[00:27:00]