Part 2: Insights on AI, Human Connection, and Brand Building

In part two of these special guest-hosted episodes of The Simple and Smart SEO Show, Sara Jensen and Shea Karssing explore how AI is reshaping SEO, the importance of human creativity in marketing, and the long-term value of offline brand-building. 

Dive into practical tips for 2025, such as creating quality content, embracing conversational tones, and leveraging AI as a tool, not a replacement. 

Learn how brand awareness impacts SEO and why genuine human connection still reigns supreme in the digital world.

🎧 Key Takeaways:

1. AI’s Role in SEO and Marketing:
   • AI tools are powerful but lack human creativity and intuition.
   • Combine human insight with AI-generated content for quality marketing.
2. Google's E-E-A-T Principles:
   • Expertise, Experience, Authority, and Trust are central to SEO success.
   • Prioritize human-led, high-quality content over low-effort hacks.
3. Offline Activities Boost SEO:
   • Brand awareness through local events and networking enhances online authority.
   • Multiple touchpoints, both online and offline, strengthen customer trust.
4. 2025 Content Strategy Priorities:
   • Focus on quality over quantity in content creation.
   • Build your email list—it remains a critical asset.
   • Conversational writing aligns with voice search trends.
5. Conversion-Driven Metrics:
   • Traffic isn’t everything; analyze how it converts into leads and sales.

✨ Memorable Quotes:

• Sarah Jensen: "I don't want AI to write and create so I can do chores. I want AI to handle chores so I can write and create."
• Shea Karssing: "SEO might sound like it’s built for machines, but at its core, it’s all about humans."
• Sarah Jensen: "Focus on quality content because anyone can do quantity now."

📌 Listener Action Items:

1. Audit your website for content quality—prioritize human voice and creativity.
2. Track conversion metrics to ensure you're attracting the right audience.
3. Explore ways to build offline brand awareness (e.g., local events or networking).
4. Optimize your writing style for conversational and voice search trends.
5. Start building or growing your email list to maintain a reliable audience base.

📲 Connect with the Guests:

• Sarah Jensen: Principal at Brighter Messaging | LinkedIn
• Shea Karssing: Copywriter and SEO Strategist | LinkedIn
• Subscribe to the Brighter Messaging newsletter 

Check out  Ann Handley's Total Annarchy newsletter 

Chapters

• 0:00 As you're looking at those metrics, don't just look at traffic.
• 1:00 Philosophical Impacts of AI on Human Thinking
• 1:26 Navigating Without GPS
• 2:14 Outsourcing and AI
• 2:55 The First Draft: A Thinking Draft
• 3:17 The Long-Term Implications of AI
• 3:29 The Evolution of Household Chores
• 4:17 AI in Marketing Content
• 4:47 The Future of Search
• 5:31 Google's EAT Score and SEO
• 5:57 The Downfall of Low-Quality SEO Tactics
• 8:01 AI Summaries and Attribution
• 13:24 Offline Activities Impacting SEO
• 14:01 Brand Awareness and SEO
• 14:35 Multiple Touchpoints in Marketing
• 16:20 2025 Marketing Focus Areas
• 22:43 The Power of Human Connection

Transcript

[00:00:00] Sara Jensen: As you're looking at those metrics, don't just look at traffic. Look at how is the traffic converting on your site?

[00:00:06] Because that's telling you, are the people that are coming to my site actually my audience? Or are they just people who, are looking for whatever I was ranking for, but they're not my target customer. 

[00:00:19] Crystal Waddell: Welcome to the simple and smart SEO show podcast, where we talk all things, brand building, SEO, helping you connect with your audience, elevate your visibility and grow your business. 

[00:00:28] I'm your host, Crystal Waddell, here to bridge the gap between SEO strategy and real world business success. By bringing you insights, stories, and conversations from the SEO community and beyond. 

[00:00:39] Whether you're an entrepreneur, marketer, or SEO enthusiast, this is your place to learn, share, and build a brand that stands out. 

[00:00:46] So grab a coffee or your favorite tea, and let's dive into Smarter SEO for your business. 

[00:00:51] Here's part two of our special guest hosted episode from Sarah Jensen and Shea Karssing from Brighter Messaging.. 

Philosophical Impacts of AI on Human Thinking

[00:01:00] Sara Jensen: I wanted to shift gears a little bit and just talk about some of our sort of philosophical beliefs about the impact of AI. 

[00:01:09] Not only on our profession, but just On humans in general and I think a big question that I personally don't believe enough people are asking or thinking about is what are the long term effects of outsourcing our thinking?

Navigating Without GPS

[00:01:26] Sara Jensen: I'm sure most people have heard it said that good writers are good thinkers. 

[00:01:30] I noticed an example in my personal life. 

[00:01:32] I need to go somewhere, put the address in my phone. And let it navigate me to the place, which is fine, and it's great.

[00:01:40] And I'm glad I have that tool. And I'm glad I don't have to print out directions from MapQuest. 

[00:01:44] But I don't learn how to get there, because somebody's just giving me turn by turn directions. I don't get any sense of The layout of the town that I'm in. 

[00:01:53] Or even the direction that I'm going and that sort of thing.

[00:01:56] And so I personally try to challenge myself if I do that two or three times. I'm like, no, I'm going to try to get there by myself. 

[00:02:02] Shea Karssing: Me too. If I've been there before, then I challenge myself and I say, I'm not going to use the map. I'm going to work. And most of the time you do get, then if you don't, you've still got it as backup, but I actually do the same.

Outsourcing and AI

[00:02:14] Sara Jensen: Yeah, so I want more people to just be thinking about, what are we outsourcing? 

[00:02:20] And I saw this meme that I absolutely loved recently, and it said I don't want AI to do writing and create art so that I have more time to do dishes and laundry. I want AI to take over the dishes and laundry so I could spend more time writing and creating art. 

[00:02:36] And I just love that.

[00:02:37] It's just strikes at the heart of what does it mean to be human? And yeah, definitely some food for thought. I also wanted to share a quote from an email newsletter that I subscribed to by Anne Handley. Her newsletter is awesome. I highly recommend it for any of you writers out there.

The First Draft: A Thinking Draft

[00:02:55] Sara Jensen: But she had in her September newsletter she said, The first draft is the thinking draft. That's where you need to be fully present. On board, just you and your glorious ideas. Protect the part of you that truly makes your content, your writing, your voice, your own. Why? Because otherwise, and over time, your skills will atrophy.

[00:03:13] You will doubt yourself more. You will build a dependency. 

The Long-Term Implications of AI

[00:03:17] Sara Jensen: I love that she said that, but it's also scary to think about. It is scary. The long term implications of that. 

[00:03:23] Shea Karssing: And something else that I thought of when you were talking about the meme that you saw with the dishes, for example, is we've come a long way.

The Evolution of Household Chores

[00:03:29] Shea Karssing: We, we've got a dishwasher now, a lot of us aren't washing dishes by hand and we've saved some time. Great. We've got a washing machine. We're not doing washing by hand saves us time. Great. What are we doing with that time that we're saving? I feel like as humans, we're not using it perhaps for those creative pursuits and the same applies to AI.

[00:03:48] Okay, cool. You're saving a bit of time. What are you doing? You're filling it maybe with. More work or more output or faster deadlines or, and things just ramp up and ramp up. And at what point are we actually going to say, Hey, we've got some robots to do the dishes for us or do a bit of this and that for us.

[00:04:07] So I'm going to go outside and lie on the grass and do absolutely nothing and think back great deep philosophical thoughts. At what point do we actually start doing that?

[00:04:16] Sara Jensen: I love that.

AI in Marketing Content

[00:04:17] Sara Jensen: So I asked chat GPT why I shouldn't use it to create marketing content. And it gave me seven reasons.

[00:04:25] with the number one reason being lack of human creativity and intuition. 

[00:04:29] It suggested that a combination of human insight, creativity, and expertise might still be essential for the most effective marketing strategies. 

[00:04:38] So there you go.

[00:04:39] Shea Karssing: So sometimes it is right. 

[00:04:40] Sara Jensen: Exactly. I was going to say, now that we spent all this time discrediting what comes out of Chat GPT... in this case, I think it nailed it.

[00:04:46] Full points. 

The Future of Search

[00:04:47] Sara Jensen: So let's just shift into the other question that Crystal had asked us to touch on and, getting a little bit more tactical here, but what should you be focusing on in this next year? Because I don't think anyone can say search has not changed. Search has definitely changing, just as search has always changed since it came out it's going to see some pretty dramatic changes in 2025.

[00:05:10] So what do we want people to be focusing on first and foremost? 

[00:05:15] Shea Karssing: So as it's also like the more things change, the more things stay the same. So I actually really admire how Google is advancing and using AI. In fact, To actually give us more quality outputs in our search results. 

Google's EAT Score and SEO

[00:05:31] Shea Karssing: And by quality, we looking at things like the E-E-A-T score.

[00:05:35] So expertise, experience, authority, and trust. And what to all four of those things have in common? Humans. 

[00:05:43] So again, it's coming back to if you're a human and you have expertise and you have experience to share that's immediate authority and trust that you can then demonstrate wherever you're showing up online.

The Downfall of Low-Quality SEO Tactics

[00:05:57] Shea Karssing: So I feel like what we've been seeing in the last few years AI, Those little hacks and tricks that people used to try of, I don't know, getting a whole bunch of backlinks from ghost sites or stuffing the content with keywords. Actually creates a low quality output.

[00:06:17] Those kinds of things aren't working anymore. And that's wonderful. 

[00:06:21] Because it actually simplifies the whole process of SEO into. 

[00:06:26] Are you using your human expertise to create quality content that other people want to read? And if you're doing that, then you're doing SEO right. And that's nothing new.

[00:06:38] But Google's getting better at finding it. 

[00:06:40] And actually penalizing those who don't do that. And I think that's wonderful. 

[00:06:44] Sara Jensen: Yeah I feel like we might disappoint people that we don't have some slick tip or something to rocket you to the top of the search results. That kind of is the tip: don't do those things.

[00:06:54] Because inevitably what happens is Google catches on that people are doing it and then they slap it down. 

[00:07:00] And that's exactly what we saw with the E-E-A-T update. 

[00:07:02] People were creating hundreds and thousands of pages on their website with AI generated content. And it was just a bunch of junk. 

[00:07:10] And Google caught up because it's not a good experience for the end user.

[00:07:15] Google is all about, at least they say they are. I know people quibble with it. 

[00:07:19] They really do say they're trying to keep humans at the center of search. And so anything that games the system is not going to be good for the humans that are using the system. 

[00:07:31] Shea Karssing: And people often ask, does Google penalize AI content?

[00:07:35] No, it doesn't. 

[00:07:36] What Google emphasizes, it's not about how the content is created. 

[00:07:40] It's about the output and the quality outcomes. 

[00:07:43] I still think, you're going to need to add a bit of your human experience and expertise to make it really, something worthy of a top result. 

[00:07:51] But again. Use AI, just make sure that your human EEAT is coming through. 

[00:07:57] Sara Jensen: Yeah, definitely. I think a lot of people in the SEO space 

AI Summaries and Attribution

[00:08:01] Sara Jensen: Are worried about, Google's doing these AI summaries on a lot of queries. And then search GPT is oh, they're taking market share.

[00:08:10] And, you can get all of this without ever clicking into the websites.

[00:08:15] Shea Karssing: I think attribution becomes more important to the user. I know it has personally for me. 

[00:08:20] So if maybe two years ago, if I'd done a search and there'd be an AI summary at the top, great. I would have accepted it and been really chuffed. That actually what I wanted to see was coming up straight away. Now that we're a little bit further down the line and I've learned a little bit more about how AI works and what to be aware of. 

[00:08:41] I'll read the summary, but I want to see a link and I want to be able to click through and see where that information has come from.

[00:08:47] AI's smart. But I feel like humans, we are still smart. We are still able to discern. 

[00:08:53] And I predict that we will more and more. 

[00:08:55] Just as we have with the internet in general. 

[00:08:58] I think people have become more aware of fake news and disinformation and misinformation and.

[00:09:04] Just double checking your sources. And cause we've all been burnt and we've all shared something that perhaps Accurate. And and we've all been scammed. 

[00:09:13] Think of how advanced and sophisticated a lot of scammers have become. And how a couple of years ago. We probably would have fallen for those kinds of phishing attempts.

[00:09:23] And now, if I receive an email from someone who I don't know, I will not click an attachment. Whereas a couple of years ago, I might've. 

[00:09:30] So I think again, we've got to give ourselves credit to us humans, that we're going to be able to seek those experiences that We can find the attribution and validation. 

[00:09:41] And the human behind who's actually giving us this information.

[00:09:45] Sara Jensen: Yeah, I think that's a great point. I'm very similar to you. I often just scroll past those little AI summaries at the top of my search. 

[00:09:53] Because I want to see a source. And what is the source? And not just a blanket here's what I found on the internet from goodness only knows who? 

[00:10:02] I would say my prediction is that we will see some sites decrease in their organic traffic.

[00:10:10] I think that's inevitable with the way that AI is presenting information to people. 

[00:10:16] Probably not everybody is as skeptical as you and I are. But I think that's going to result in better conversion rates. And lower bounce rates because when people do come to your site, they will do so with more intention.

[00:10:30] They're not just looking for a quick answer. And they were never going to buy from you anyway. 

[00:10:35] That's my prediction. Curious to see how it plays out. But, as you're looking at those metrics, don't just look at traffic. Look at how is the traffic converting on your site.

[00:10:45] Because that's telling you, are the people that are coming to my site actually my audience? Or are they just people who, are looking for whatever I was ranking for, but they're not my target customer. 

[00:10:59] Shea Karssing: Yeah, that's a really good point. And I think, in marketing for a long time, we've seen that conversion rate is the gold standard.

[00:11:06] This is what we want to achieve. This is where the business goals are. But it can look wonderful and shiny and great when you're top of the search results and you're getting all this traffic and those are easy metrics to focus on and get excited about. 

[00:11:17] But cool. 

[00:11:19] Are you actually achieving your goals?

[00:11:21] And most of the time that goal looks like getting some kind of conversion and new business. So yeah, I think that's a really good point. 

[00:11:28] Sara Jensen: I think the other piece of it I haven't really played around with search GPT very much. 

[00:11:34] But I've been reading about it. 

[00:11:35] And one thing that a lot of people have pointed out is that there are many functions of a website that search GPT can't necessarily supply.

[00:11:46] One of the biggest ones being e commerce capabilities. Like you can't, buy something, you have to pass over to that secure server on the e comm website. 

[00:11:57] So again, don't let it scare you or make you think SEO is dead or any of this. It's just changing sort of the user experience. But it's not necessarily always a negative thing for your business.

[00:12:12] Shea Karssing: Yeah. Focus on the metrics that matter. 

[00:12:14] Sara Jensen: Yeah. A lot of people have been quoting Sundar Pichai. 

[00:12:18] Who was just interviewed on the topic of how search is changing. 

[00:12:22] And, what he said is that it's changing, but it's not going away. 

[00:12:26] And I pulled a quote from him. He said, in a world in which you're flooded a lot of content.

[00:12:32] If anything, something like search becomes more valuable. In a world in which you're inundated with content, you're trying to find trustworthy content, that makes sense to you in a way reliably you can use it. I think it becomes more valuable. So there you have it from the CEO of Google.

[00:12:47] Pretty much the theme of what we've been talking about here today. 

[00:12:51] Shea Karssing: And something else that's just sprung to mind with that quote is I wonder, and I don't know when when you're searching for something, you're getting served results that are somewhat customized to you. And your context. And your search history, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:13:06] I wonder if AI is achieving that level of customization? Or if it's just that general aggregation? I don't know the answer. 

[00:13:15] Sara Jensen: Yeah, I don't know the answer either. I imagine it must be. In some way in as much as search can do it, but yeah, it's, I'm sure it's all still unfolding. 

Offline Activities Impacting SEO

[00:13:24] Sara Jensen: Speaking of new ideas and 2025 predictions, I shouldn't say this is a new idea, but it's something that I think is becoming more and more relevant. 

[00:13:34] Is how much offline activity impacts your SEO.

[00:13:39] A lot of people don't realize how much brand awareness plays a role in SEO and search rankings. 

[00:13:47] Nobody can definitively say that Google looks at brand awareness as part of a site's authority score. 

[00:13:55] But it's, a lot of really smart people have surmised that they do. It seems a lot like they do.

Brand Awareness and SEO

[00:14:01] Sara Jensen: And so when you're increasing your offline brand awareness. That's going to result in more searches for your brand. 

[00:14:08] Which will increase your authority score because more people are looking for you. It's going to increase your relevancy. 

[00:14:13] The more people see your brand, the more likely they are to Google it.

[00:14:16] As you're thinking about your strategy in 2025 and beyond, think about what are you doing offline? 

[00:14:23] Even if you're an online business. that doesn't mean you should just be sitting in your office all the time, like working on your website. 

[00:14:29] Get out into the world and really have a strategy for getting your business out there.

Multiple Touchpoints in Marketing

[00:14:35] Shea Karssing: And I think to your point, it's also about having those multiple touch points. And again, if I feel like things are coming full circle. 

[00:14:42] Digital world exploded, we were able to track and click. To a visit to a conversion, which is amazing. And it's wonderful to have that data. 

[00:14:49] But there's something to be said for that awareness that you can't box it into analytics always. 

[00:14:56] So if you think of some brands that you've engaged with, you might not remember where you actually heard of them. 

[00:15:02] Or it can be a culmination of seeing something on social media. Seeing if it's a local business. 

[00:15:09] Even a advertisement in your local newspaper. And see an article. Seeing some kind of activity that they're engaging in. 

[00:15:16] Some charity activity or something like that.

[00:15:18] All those little things subconsciously affect your purchasing decisions without you even realizing it.

[00:15:25] So I think it's short sighted to pursue only one channel for all of your marketing. 

[00:15:32] And think that's great. 

[00:15:33] Sure, it might work. But you don't know what you could be missing out on. 

[00:15:36] Not to mention that brand awareness that can help with your SEO too. 

[00:15:40] Sara Jensen: Yeah, I think that's great.

[00:15:42] As you're starting to think about the brand awareness piece, you can look at branded keyword searches and see, how are you doing on this?

[00:15:51] So are people searching for like your brand name pricing? Or your brand name alternatives? 

[00:15:57] You want to be able to capture those queries and bring them onto your site. 

[00:16:02] Just be aware of what is being searched for related to your brand out there. 

[00:16:07] But also, those kind of offline touch points as well.

[00:16:11] Shea Karssing: And again, those, a lot of those offline touch points come with an extra dose of trust. Because there can be a face there too. 

[00:16:19] Sara Jensen: Yeah, definitely. 

2025 Marketing Focus Areas

[00:16:20] Sara Jensen: Just to wrap us up, I thought we would share our list of things that we are focusing on in 2025 and things for you guys to take a look at. 

[00:16:29] The first one being quality of content over quantity.

[00:16:33] We've seen clear signals from search engines this year. Also just remembering that the quality of your content is a representation of your brand. 

[00:16:41] So how do you want your brand to look and sound out there? 

[00:16:45] Shea Karssing: And also nowadays, because we have AI tools available to us.

[00:16:49] You could churn out how many blog posts a day if you really wanted to using AI?

[00:16:54] One every five minutes even! Yeah, that really speaks to quality because anyone can do quantity. Now, quantity, the gates, the floodgates have been opened. 

[00:17:02] Quality is where the wins are. 

[00:17:04] Sara Jensen: And, along with that, part of quality content is content written in your unique human voice.

[00:17:10] So focus on really developing that, bring that out. Maybe that's something that you haven't historically done for your business. This year is a good time to take a look at that. 

[00:17:20] What is the voice that you have out there? Do all of your sort of customer touch points align to that voice? 

[00:17:27] Next one on the list.

[00:17:28] Don't just be there to sell, have a dialogue with people, whether they're coming to your website or finding you on social media. Or whatever it is. 

[00:17:37] I think we've gotten in the marketing space, super transactional. 

[00:17:41] And so when brands do manage to have some kind of dialogue, it's unexpected. And can be delightful.

[00:17:50] And I'm just going to quickly share a meme. that I came across. So looking at marketing emails today. Yes. Very sad. Anyway, here's 15 percent off. Don't do that. Act like a human.

[00:18:02] And, along with that, just being generally, genuinely helpful to people too. So have an understanding of who you're writing for. What do you want them to get out of it? 

[00:18:09] And, really all these tips. things to focus on, there's nothing new here. 

[00:18:14] This is all stuff that we should have been doing all along, but a good checklist to look at your brand and say, am I doing these things?

[00:18:20] If not, here's some things to focus on. 

[00:18:22] Shea Karssing: But I think a lot of them have become more important in a world proliferated with AI. 

[00:18:27] So just as an example, in my own writing, I feel like I now make more of an effort to bring a unique voice to the table than I did pre AI. Because I don't want to sound like AI.

[00:18:38] And it's actually made me a better writer for it. I think it's been amplified. 

[00:18:42] Although the advice has always been sound and always been there, it's become ever more important. Yeah, 

[00:18:47] Sara Jensen: I think that's a great point. Also it's something that is changing is just the conversational language that people are using.

[00:18:56] Voice search is something that I don't think most people are thinking enough about. 

[00:19:00] But just also as a society, People, in general, are becoming more casual. 

[00:19:06] Language is becoming more casual. We don't speak to people like, dear sir or madam, greetings of the day. Like these things that sound so awkward now that used to be the standard way you would address people.

[00:19:18] And writing in a way that feels conversational. Is going to be more compatible with sort of the voice to text searches that are becoming more and more popular.

[00:19:29] Shea Karssing: Definitely. So it actually, it serves multiple purposes in that it's not necessarily for the sake of optimizing for voice search.

[00:19:38] It's also sounding again, like we keep coming back to sounding like the human that you are. 

[00:19:43] And. 

[00:19:45] Shea Karssing: speaking to people where they're at. 

[00:19:47] Sara Jensen: Build your email list. Email is not dead.

[00:19:50] It is not going away. This is what you own. Anyone can take away your followers on social media. They can't take away your email list. So focus on building your email list and keeping in touch with the people on there. 

[00:20:02] We also talked a little bit earlier about conversion rates, making sure that you're tracking traffic that's turning into leads. 

[00:20:09] Because that's giving you some insights into whether the traffic that you're getting is relevant. 

[00:20:14] And then last one that, Shea, you talked quite a bit about is having those multiple touch points with your audience.

[00:20:21] Shea Karssing: Maybe Sara, because we've, my fault, gone off a bit and throwing some tangents in here. Maybe just summarize that list one more time for everyone. 

[00:20:29] Sara Jensen: Sure. Focus on quality over quantity of content. Let your unique human voice shine. 

[00:20:36] Don't be there to sell all the time. Have a dialogue with your customers or with your lead site visitors.

[00:20:43] Be genuinely helpful. So understand who you're writing for, what do you want them to get out of your content. 

[00:20:48] Be more conversational. Perhaps more so than you might have been in the past. Build your email list. 

[00:20:54] Track your conversion rates. When people are coming to your site, are they converting into leads or customers?

[00:21:00] And focus on creating multiple touchpoints with your brand. Both online and offline. 

[00:21:04] Shea Karssing: So what are you most excited for in the world of marketing for 2025? Which of these trends or ideas excites you most? 

[00:21:14] Sara Jensen: I think for me, it's really the looking at ways to. Build that brand awareness offline. And see how that translates to online. 

[00:21:23] Because, that's something that a lot of smaller businesses shy away from brand awareness activities. And rightly so. Because you can't really track the efficacy of them.

[00:21:35] And if you have limited resources, You don't want to put them into something nebulous. 

[00:21:40] You want to put it into something where you're going to see results. 

[00:21:44] But you don't have to spend insane amounts of money on billboards and TV commercials and things like that. 

[00:21:50] Shea Karssing: Tell us about what you've done with Brighter Messaging, for example.

[00:21:53] Sara Jensen: Yeah. Getting out into my local community. So being a member of the chamber of commerce in my local town, Holly Springs, North Carolina. 

[00:22:01] And other networking groups that are here. 

[00:22:04] We've also participated in events in town where we, we've created a booth and we handed out balloons and things like that. 

[00:22:13] Just to get our name out there. And to show we support the local community that we're in. That's not necessarily where our client base is. 

[00:22:21] We have far more clients out of state than we do in state. 

[00:22:26] Where I happen to live. But that's the opportunity that I have. That's relatively low budget, low commitment. 

[00:22:34] But some things that I can do to be getting our name, our brand out there, forming real life relationships with people.

The Power of Human Connection

[00:22:43] Shea Karssing: So I think here's to the power of human connection. 

[00:22:46] Even when we're talking about something like SEO. Where, the word is search engine optimization. 

[00:22:54] It doesn't sound like something built for humans, but it is. And I think most of what we've talked about today is what really makes us human. 

[00:23:04] And that is our connections to one another and our unique expertise.

[00:23:09] Call me sentimental, but I really love that. I think it's great that, things have come to a point where we've got the machines to help us. But actually it's all about the humans. 

[00:23:20] Sara Jensen: Yeah, that's true. I love that too. Thank you guys so much for listening.

[00:23:24] It's just a real honor for Crystal to let us take the seat today and come out and talk with you guys. 

[00:23:30] We would love to continue the conversation. I'm Sara Jensen. I'm the owner and principal at Brighter Messaging. I would invite you to join our email list. We'll make sure Crystal puts a link to that in the show notes.

[00:23:42] You can also find me on LinkedIn. 

[00:23:44] And Shea Karssing is our copywriter and SEO strategist. And she's also a freelance writer in her own right. Shea, you want to say a little bit about where they can find you? 

[00:23:52] Shea Karssing: LinkedIn is the best spot where we can just be humans together. So yeah, my name spelling is a little tricky, so you'll find that in the show notes too.

[00:24:01] Don't send Shea any chat GPT written connection requests. She won't accept them. 

[00:24:06] Sara Jensen: It'll be a hard no. All right. Thanks guys. Have a great day.