Combining Strategic SEO & Growth Mindset with Edwin Romero

In this episode of the Simple and Smart SEO Show, I chat with Edwin Romero, an SEO expert I met at Brighton SEO in San Diego. 

We explore several key aspects of SEO:

• The importance of targeting high-intent, long-tail keywords over high-volume, short-tail ones to boost conversions. 
• The necessity of personalized SEO strategies and a deep understanding of customer needs.

Our discussion extends to the intricacies of website migrations, including:

• meticulous planning, 
• effective redirects, 
• and their impact on SEO. 

Edwin offers valuable insights on various e-commerce platforms like Salesforce Commerce Cloud, Shopify, and Magento, highlighting their unique features and the challenges associated with their migrations.

We also explore Edwin's dual role in managing his independent SEO consultancy alongside his family's import business. He shares how he balances these responsibilities with caring for his growing family and mental health.

Connect With Edwin
Website
Linkedin
Out of Office Chat Podcast


Notable Moments
0:00 Strategic SEO and Business Growth: Lessons and Tips w/ Edwin Romero
00:41 Introduction and Guest Welcome
01:04 Edwin Romero's Background in SEO
01:16 Specialization in Salesforce Commerce Cloud
02:10 Balancing SEO Practice and Family Business
03:45 Understanding Salesforce Commerce Cloud
05:57 Exploring Magento and Website Migrations
08:24 Planning a Successful Website Migration
14:10 Pragmatic SEO Approach
15:56 SEO and Conversion Optimization
17:14 The Out of Office Podcast
17:22 Creative Outlets and Podcasting
17:38 Balancing Family and Hobbies
17:58 Books and Movies as Hobbies
18:26 Exploring Unique Reads
19:19 Multiverse and De-stressing
20:42 Transition from Corporate to Entrepreneurship
21:49 Challenges of Independent Consultancy
23:52 Building an SEO Strategy
24:48 Tailoring Strategies to Unique Brands
29:31 Learning and Growing as an Entrepreneur

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Chapters

• 0:00 there's no point in ranking for like something that accrues several hundred
• 0:02 thousands of searches and number one.
• 0:04 And your website's not ready to deal with those types of intents.
• 0:41 Introduction and Guest Welcome
• 1:04 Edwin Romero's Background in SEO
• 1:16 Specialization in Salesforce Commerce Cloud
• 2:10 Balancing SEO Practice and Family Business
• 3:45 Understanding Salesforce Commerce Cloud
• 5:57 Exploring Magento and Website Migrations
• 8:24 Planning a Successful Website Migration
• 14:10 Pragmatic SEO Approach
• 15:56 SEO and Conversion Optimization
• 17:14 The Out of Office Podcast
• 17:22 Creative Outlets and Podcasting
• 17:38 Balancing Family and Hobbies
• 17:58 Books and Movies as Hobbies
• 18:26 Exploring Unique Reads
• 19:19 Multiverse and De-stressing
• 21:05 Transition from Corporate to Entrepreneurship
• 22:12 Challenges of Independent Consultancy
• 24:15 Building an SEO Strategy
• 25:11 Tailoring Strategies to Unique Brands
• 29:54 Learning and Growing as an Entrepreneur

Transcript

[00:00:00] Edwin Romero: there's no point in ranking for like something that accrues several hundred thousands of searches and number one. 

[00:00:04] And your website's not ready to deal with those types of intents. 

[00:00:07] Leaning into a customer base that has relatively high intent. Which honestly means lower search value, longer, longer tail phrasing. It can help you increase conversions. 

[00:00:17] But you also have to examine what the customer wants. And update your site accordingly.

[00:00:21] Crystal Waddell: Welcome to the third season of the Simple and Smart SEO Show. The podcast dedicated to empathy driven, brand building SEO. I'm your host, Crystal Waddell. I leverage my obsession with user experience to help business owners just like you optimize your website with confidence. 

[00:00:37] Thank you so much for being here.

[00:00:39] Let's jump into another great episode.

Introduction and Guest Welcome

[00:00:41] Crystal Waddell: Welcome back to the simple and smart SEO show podcast. 

[00:00:44] I am here with a friend that I met at Brighton SEO in San Diego, Edwin Romero, and we crossed paths. I don't know. Maybe I think it was like in an after event, and just chatted it up and then, stayed in touch over the last few months.

[00:00:57] And I've just been, applauding you and watching you as you're growing your business. So welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here. 

Edwin Romero's Background in SEO

[00:01:04] Crystal Waddell: Edwin, tell us all about you and how you got started in SEO. 

[00:01:07] Edwin Romero: For sure. 

[00:01:08] Thank you for having me, Crystal. I really appreciate it. And I do remember it being one of the highlights from Brighton SEO, having a conversation with you.

[00:01:13] I was like, that was a really good chat. I really liked it. 

Specialization in Salesforce Commerce Cloud

[00:01:16] Edwin Romero: But as far as me. I'm an independent SEO consultant. I focus on a few things, including website migrations. 

[00:01:21] I guess my niche, is Salesforce Commerce Cloud sites.

[00:01:24] So those are e commerce websites. That's like the B to C arm for Salesforce.

[00:01:28] Between the website migrations and being involved with Commerce Cloud. It's allowed me to maneuver through diverse groups. Communicate effectively. 

[00:01:35] But also get an understanding of what really impacts a brand when going into a website migration.

[00:01:40] But also what impacts a brand based on the lack of resources.

[00:01:43] I think as SEOers, we come in hot sometimes. We're like, we have all these lists of things to do. Can you please implement all of them? Or sometimes it's not even please. 

[00:01:50] Just implement them. That's not how brands operate.

[00:01:52] There's not an infinite budget. It's all finite. So we have to prioritize accordingly. 

[00:01:57] And what that's helped me do is translate my skills I've built up for Commerce Cloud and website migrations. 

[00:02:03] The skills were very applicable to other platforms. And, honestly, I'm super grateful that, that I've been on this journey. Two years on my own. 

Balancing SEO Practice and Family Business

[00:02:10] Edwin Romero: I started off because I wanted to help our family business. So now I'm juggling that, my SEO practice and family business.

[00:02:15] And it's a pretty cool dynamic. 

[00:02:17] Crystal Waddell: So what is your family business? 

[00:02:18] Edwin Romero: Yeah. So we import goods from South America, Ecuador and Peru. 

[00:02:22] It's grains, fruits, frozen frozen, frozen vegetables and frozen fruits. And then we import them through our storefront, but we also sell it Wholesale. 

[00:02:32] So we sell to the Midwest.

[00:02:33] And, I'm really proud of my parents. 

[00:02:35] Because they've actually built out the distribution network to the point where we're the largest South American provider in the Midwest. 

[00:02:41] Crystal Waddell: Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, so you caught the entrepreneur bug from your parents. 

[00:02:46] Edwin Romero: Yeah, I did. 

[00:02:47] Don't get me wrong, I love the safety net of being at a company. The 9 to 5. 

[00:02:51] Knowing what you're gonna face. The health insurance, the salaries. 

[00:02:54] The regular stuff. But, I do enjoy it.

[00:02:56] I get to meet a lot of cool people that I wouldn't have otherwise. 

[00:02:59] Like yourself, folks from Brighton, and even like with the my parents business, I get to meet a lot of cool folks, In the community. 

[00:03:06] So I'm Ecuadorian. And one of the things I wanted to do was bring my son up, within the Ecuadorian culture.

[00:03:12] So I was like, this actually serves multiple phenomenal purposes. So since I've started working with them, I'm learning all these cool things and I'm bringing them home. 

[00:03:18] And, I share with my family. It's a lot of fun. Very rewarding. 

[00:03:22] Crystal Waddell: That is so neat. I love it when things do serve like a dual purpose. 

[00:03:25] Because anytime I can bring my son into our business, I really like to do that. 

[00:03:28] Even to show him like, Hey, you can do these things. And turn that into something tangible. 

[00:03:32] Like a game that you want. Because you earn the money.

[00:03:35] There's been times where I'm like, Asher, paint this or do this or whatever. 

[00:03:38] But it's so good for them to see it, what work means. Because sometimes especially children, they just think things just appear. 

Understanding Salesforce Commerce Cloud

[00:03:45] Crystal Waddell: There were some terms I wasn't familiar with on your website and you said them again.

[00:03:50] So you mentioned that you use Salesforce commerce cloud . 

[00:03:54] And, most of the people who are listening right now Are entrepreneurs or maybe other aspiring SEOs. 

[00:04:00] But we're not really familiar with that side of, businesses because that sounds like enterprise, like huge businesses and stuff.

[00:04:07] But could you give us like a brief synopsis of what that even means, that Salesforce Commerce Cloud? 

[00:04:13] Edwin Romero: Sure. So one of the biggest competitors for Salesforce Commerce Cloud right now is Shopify. 

[00:04:16] So if you've used Shopify itself, it's a content management system that helps facilitate ecommerce transactions, right?

[00:04:23] It's just a, yeah, it's just a, it's a website store. 

[00:04:25] And Salesforce Commerce Cloud is in that same vein. 

[00:04:28] Except it's way more robust. It's way more robust than a Shopify site. 

[00:04:32] And I believe at this point, the market and the folks that live live and breathe Salesforce Commerce Cloud. 

[00:04:38] It's being rivaled by the Shopify folks that are coming up, learning the platform, how to integrate it with various other connectors and vendors. 

[00:04:45] How to optimize it, how to build it.

[00:04:47] So it is. Enterprise level. No, actually I would say it's more in the class of medium. 

[00:04:52] Because when we get into enterprise level, there are even platforms above that. 

[00:04:55] Like I think SAP hybrids is a, it's an e commerce platform that is super robust, super rigid. 

[00:05:00] Salesforce commerce cloud is in that Goldilocks state, where you can do certain things. 

[00:05:04] You can mess around with certain optimizations. Got tests. 

[00:05:07] But it's also rigid in the fact that you're always going to need a developer.

[00:05:09] In some aspects, it's like WordPress where you can optimize page titles, meta descriptions, sitemap, robots. 

[00:05:14] But in other aspects, it's not like you can say you can look for a plugin that helps you build schema. Products you want. 

[00:05:20] Rather, you have to have a developer that's familiar with commerce cloud. 

[00:05:23] Come in and build it for you, build it into the website.

[00:05:26] Crystal Waddell: Yeah. So I think that's the biggest difference for, probably myself and many people listening is like. 

[00:05:32] When you use a company like Shopify. They integrate all of those things for you. And then if there are other things that you need, they have like their app store. 

[00:05:40] So you don't necessarily have to, hire a developer.

[00:05:43] You can hire the developers products. 

[00:05:46] So that makes it a little bit easier, as an entrepreneur. 

[00:05:49] But I'm glad that you're bringing up these different e commerce providers. 

[00:05:52] Because we haven't talked about, the. Salesforce Commerce Cloud. I've never even heard of that before.

Exploring Magento and Website Migrations

[00:05:57] Crystal Waddell: And then we also haven't talked about Magento. What is Magento? Another competitor of Shopify? 

[00:06:02] Edwin Romero: Yeah, it's another e commerce platform. 

[00:06:04] Most websites should be transitioned off Magento one onto Magento two. 

[00:06:08] Like Magento two should be a little bit more stable.

[00:06:11] As a platform now, I've worked on some of those sites. 

[00:06:14] Every website has its kind of rigidness and there is some rigidity. If that is a word. 

[00:06:18] With M2. Magento 2. 

[00:06:20] And it's not bad though. It's also one of those platforms that you can go back. Go in there and just mess around. You can optimize, you can do things.

[00:06:27] It's a little bit more customizable. 

[00:06:29] In Shopify, they have their plugin marketplace. 

[00:06:31] For one client, the SEO capabilities of Magento two weren't enough. 

[00:06:35] So we had to download, I think Maj Works. Which is a kind of an SEO extension. We had to purchase it for, I forget how much.

[00:06:41] And then with that, they were able to optimize the website a little further. 

[00:06:44] So yeah, it's another e-commerce platform. 

[00:06:45] Crystal Waddell: Okay, and then you mentioned another term called migrations. 

[00:06:49] There's a few different things that are in here that, people are probably like, what is that? 

[00:06:52] But I'm trying to find them one at a time and pull them out.

[00:06:55] But what is a migration and how do you do it successfully? 

[00:06:59] And why would you do it? 

[00:07:00] Edwin Romero: Yeah, why you would do it? 

[00:07:02] That's, I think that's the best place to start. Why would you undergo a migration? And it's totally dependent on the brand's needs. 

[00:07:07] So it's dependent on... maybe the technology that your website is running on right now is very archaic.

[00:07:12] And there's either an updated version on the same CMS.

[00:07:15] Or, based on the needs, it'd be more cost effective to move to another platform. 

[00:07:19] For the most part, I've experienced homegrown going into another system. So Commerce Cloud, typically. 

[00:07:24] Now a migration can mean a lot.

[00:07:26] It can mean a redesign. 

[00:07:28] A lot of folks confuse. Okay, let's do a migration on the home page. 

[00:07:30] When it's like you're not migrating the home page. You're just doing a redesign. 

[00:07:33] You're fixing up some aspects of those Homepage design so that it's a little bit more user friendly, a little bit more oriented towards conversions. 

[00:07:40] Migration can also mean moving from one host to another.

[00:07:43] In that case, It doesn't affect, it may not affect URLs, or it may. It just depends on the kind of the transition. 

[00:07:49] Primarily, what I deal with is migrations that move from one platform on over to another platform. 

[00:07:54] Now, because of the switch, There are certain capabilities in each platform that cannot be transitioned over to the other.

[00:08:00] So what that means is a change in URLs, a change in metadata, a change in, honestly, the architecture. 

[00:08:05] The primary pitfalls that I see occur is a lack of planning. 

[00:08:08] And then looping in SEO early on. 

[00:08:10] Sometimes I'm brought in a month out with the clients asking me, Hey, can you optimize this in the next four weeks?

[00:08:16] Depending on the effort, I can say yes or no.

[00:08:19] Like it's gonna be a big risk and I can help you but we just have to get that risk out of the way.

Planning a Successful Website Migration

[00:08:24] Crystal Waddell: Okay, so you're saying that there's not enough planning. 

[00:08:27] And this really is resonating with me because I am switching.

[00:08:31] I'm actually breaking apart my Personal brand, if you will. 

[00:08:35] I've got Crystal Waddell, the Knowledge Vomiter. 

[00:08:37] And then I also have the Simple and Smart SEO part of what I do. 

[00:08:41] And so I'm moving all of the podcasts and SEO stuff to simpleandsmart.com. 

[00:08:47] Which is right now it's hosted by Buzzsprout.

[00:08:49] And so it's interesting to me, like, how do you. How do you plan for that? Do you have any tips for planning the migration? 

[00:08:56] Edwin Romero: Again, it always goes back to what the goal is. In a case like yours.

[00:09:00] I think it, it makes, to me, it resonates really well because I'm on the same boat. 

[00:09:03] I talk about SEO. I talk about life, I talk about entrepreneurship. So splitting makes a ton of sense. 

[00:09:08] I think it's in terms of yours, planning. 

[00:09:10] I think it comes back to how do you want to serve the customer?

[00:09:13] How do you want to serve the user? If it's SEO, it's a little bit. 

[00:09:16] I would say straightforward in that you're serving people that have SEO in mind on your other, business line. 

[00:09:21] But again, it's the goals and what you hope to accomplish with your user. 

[00:09:25] Crystal Waddell: Ultimately I want it to host my podcast. And then also serve as kind of a natural funnel if you will I guess into my membership the SEO squad. 

[00:09:35] Edwin Romero: Cool. Oh, yeah, that's pretty cool, then. Yeah.

[00:09:36] If the lines are combined then it makes that whole path towards the membership a little bit more muddy. 

[00:09:41] Edwin Romero: So that's impressive for one.

[00:09:42] That's really cool. 

[00:09:43] When we're like talking about like brands online who are trying to make that migration. 

[00:09:48] The planning typically Like when we're talking about medium to enterprise level, the planning starts anywhere from nine to 14 months out. 

[00:09:55] From the actual migration date. Yeah. So it's a long pathway.

[00:09:58] Only reason is you have so many. Disciplines, you have so much that goes into a website migration from the redesign, from UX. From content. Accessibility. 

[00:10:07] And all these stakeholders.

[00:10:08] Crystal Waddell: Okay, yeah, you got my question in the chat.

[00:10:10] Edwin Romero: Yeah, how do I keep my podcast episode links from being broken? 

[00:10:13] Redirects. 

[00:10:14] Redirects in a Migration are your bestest of friends. 

[00:10:18] Often when something goes wrong it's probably tied to the redirects and how they are not as strategic.

[00:10:22] I think what you can do in that case is just make sure that you test your redirects. 

[00:10:26] You can do that with screaming frog, crawl your website. 

[00:10:28] Pertinent links that you know are going to transition off, and into a separate domain, separate property. Keep track of those.

[00:10:34] Keep tabs of those. So now when you're building out your website, your new website, I'm not sure what the redirect capabilities are on the new platform. 

[00:10:41] But make sure that the capabilities are there and that you've, Accounted for the legacy URLs, the URL paths, so that they are, honestly, that they toggle and resolve to an optimal experience.

[00:10:51] Now, where's your main website right now? Where's it housed on? 

[00:10:54] Crystal Waddell: My main website is on Shopify. 

[00:10:56] Edwin Romero: It's on Shopify. And that includes the SEO SEO podcast? 

[00:10:59] Crystal Waddell: That's hosted by Buzzsprout. It's just like you can click and it's a 301, from my website to the Buzzsprout site.

[00:11:07] Edwin Romero: Yeah. Okay. So that's pretty straightforward.

[00:11:09] As long as you catalog those, you'll be good. Actually that's a good starting point. And then you want to test them, of course, again, with the Screaming Frog crawler. 

[00:11:16] Just run them through Screaming Frog and make sure they resolve to their new location.

[00:11:19] It'll take time, but I think the benefit is that. You've already accrued authority on your what's going to be the legacy pages. That should transfer over with 301 redirects. 

[00:11:28] Crystal Waddell: Yeah. And then there's that option of letting Google know what you're doing. Do you think that's worth, do you think that's actually worth doing when you're migrating a site from one domain to another?

[00:11:38] Edwin Romero: If it's the entire domain, yeah. 

[00:11:39] If it's the entire domain, if it's partial, partially, migrated, because that also happens as well. I wouldn't suggest it. 

[00:11:44] Because then Google might misunderstand that. In your case, are you migrating the entire domain? 

[00:11:48] Crystal Waddell: Yes, because everything right now is

[00:11:51] I don't know if I'm going to have to, maybe send it to Wix and then connect the Membership Platform on the backside, but I was hoping to use the Membership Platform just as an all in one. 

[00:12:00] Edwin Romero: That's really neat. That's awesome. Yeah. 

[00:12:02] Good for you. Being able to juggle all these technologies.

[00:12:04] That's awesome. 

[00:12:05] Crystal Waddell: I love technologies. 

[00:12:06] Yeah. 

[00:12:06] And I, I've been using Searchie.io for a while. 

[00:12:08] Because Searchie is a video platform and you can actually search the podcast. Like I created a GPT for the podcast. 

[00:12:16] In the show notes, all you have to do is just click, Search the show.

[00:12:19] People can search the podcast for free. So the only thing I ask is that you give me your email address.

[00:12:24] But you hit that link and it'll take you to where you just put in your name and email address. 

[00:12:29] And immediately you have access to all 100 plus episodes that I've created. 

[00:12:34] And you can search it. And then it pops up if you have a question about on page or meta descriptions or, whatever.

[00:12:41] It immediately takes you to the places in each podcast that references it. So you can listen to it. 

[00:12:47] And it's so cool because you can just get your information immediately without having to just comb through a whole bunch of stuff that you don't really need. 

[00:12:54] Edwin Romero: That's cool. I didn't realize that type of platform existed.

[00:12:57] Crystal Waddell: Yeah, it's awesome. Especially when you think about memberships and courses. 

[00:13:01] One of my friends, Rachael, she said, when people want information, the one piece of information that helps you get unstuck and keep it moving.

[00:13:08] You don't even really look at anything else because you just needed that one piece. But the. Negative is that you typically have to sift through all of the stuff that's irrelevant to you, right? 

[00:13:19] So that's why I love Searchie so much. 

[00:13:20] Because as an entrepreneur I can just respect that, it's like I have limited amount of time. 

[00:13:25] i'm doing a lot of different things Just give me the information that I need so that I can move on to the next thing. 

[00:13:30] I just want to solve my problem.

[00:13:31] And so that's why I created that gpt because I know a lot of people listen to the podcast.

[00:13:36] But I also know sometimes you just have a question about a specific tactic or strategy or term. And so it's just really nice that you can go there and find that immediately. 

[00:13:46] Edwin Romero: Yeah. Do you get like data stats on the the search the searches that are made?

[00:13:50] Crystal Waddell: There's stats on the backside. 

[00:13:51] Yeah, it gives you, retention facts. It gives you like search queries and all of those types of things. So it's like you have your own search engine where you can find stuff out.

[00:13:59] So 

[00:14:00] Edwin Romero: I have to check it out. That's pretty cool. 

[00:14:01] Crystal Waddell: So the other thing that was on your homepage that, I did not look up this word before we chatted.

[00:14:06] So I wanted to ask you like, what is pragmatic SEO? 

Pragmatic SEO Approach

[00:14:10] Crystal Waddell: Because you described yourself as a pragmatic SEO. Or that you do pragmatic SEO. So can you break that down for us? 

[00:14:17] Edwin Romero: so being a pragmatist in part means just Coming to terms with reality. 

[00:14:21] And working with the circumstances of the cards are dealt. That's how I interpret pragmatism.

[00:14:25] Now SEO As a business line as a as an offering I think should fall under that same umbrella should fall in the same vein. 

[00:14:34] You know, I mentioned earlier Where SEOs sometimes come in hot. They want everything done and they want it done all at once. But the fact of the matter is you just can't have that. 

[00:14:42] As an entrepreneur, like I can respect that as well. Where, hey, you know what? I'm limited by budget.

[00:14:48] I can only do so much. They're 24 hours in a day. 

[00:14:50] Being pragmatic as an SEO-er means being a partner who respects that the lack of resources and the circumstances. 

[00:14:56] And works with under the conditions that a brand finds themselves within. 

[00:15:00] Now, what that also means is that I work with brands.

[00:15:03] I love having a conversation. 

[00:15:05] Like we're having conversation right now. The best relationships I've had with clients is when we can sit down. 

[00:15:09] Face to face, camera to camera, and just have a conversation. 

[00:15:12] Reason being is, you open up about what keeps you up at night, and I offer up how I can be of service.

[00:15:18] Now, if there's something that I cannot do, I'm gonna be transparent. 

[00:15:21] And say, no, I'm also bound by certain limitations, but. 

[00:15:25] I can help you in certain aspects of your business. Whether it be just communicating, facilitating relationships between various stakeholders. 

[00:15:31] Or just level setting expectations on what can be accomplished in a specific timeline.

[00:15:36] It can mean a lot. Being pragmatic is, is a mouthful. 

[00:15:39] Crystal Waddell: Yeah, so I guess I'm pragmatic. I didn't even realize that. So that's fun. That's a fun word to say. 

[00:15:44] So I'll probably be using it in the future. 

[00:15:46] But one thing I think it's really important to talk about here, too Is the fact that a lot of people think that, okay If I implement SEO. 

[00:15:53] The magic is then going to happen with conversions.

SEO and Conversion Optimization

[00:15:56] Crystal Waddell: And so how do you have that conversation with people when you're, speaking about their goals? 

[00:16:02] Edwin Romero: What I like to do is SEO and organic search is a traffic generator. And I think it's really important just to get that out of the way first. 

[00:16:09] But one of the questions that I follow up with my clients is what conversion optimization projects have you taken on? 

[00:16:14] And sometimes they say, not that many.

[00:16:16] Sometimes they say here they are. 

[00:16:19] And the goal is to I'm not going to say I'm a conversion optimization expert. 

[00:16:22] But my end goal is to get them to start thinking about conversions because what's the point of driving all this traffic and having none of it convert? 

[00:16:29] I think I was talking to my wife several years ago. 

[00:16:31] I was shifting away from short tail, high volume keywords. 

[00:16:35] To prioritizing medium and low search volume. 

[00:16:38] Because the intent is a little bit more specific. 

[00:16:40] And I mentioned to her, there's no point in ranking for like something that accrues several hundred thousands of searches and number one. 

[00:16:46] And your website's not ready to deal with those types of behaviors, those types of intents. 

[00:16:50] Leaning into a customer base that has relatively high intent which honestly means lower search value, longer, longer tail phrasing. It can help you increase conversions. 

[00:17:00] But you also have to examine what the customer wants, and update your site accordingly.

[00:17:04] Crystal Waddell: Yeah. Wow. What a great answer. I think that's probably going to be the lead into this particular podcast. And then I'm glad that you mentioned your wife. Because I know we're bouncing around a little bit, but that's how my brain works. 

The Out of Office Podcast

[00:17:14] Crystal Waddell: Cause you have a podcast, the out of office podcast. 

[00:17:17] And you mentioned even on your website that you did, a little bit of this, a little bit of that. 

[00:17:21] What's your podcast about? 

Creative Outlets and Podcasting

[00:17:22] Edwin Romero: Yeah, so it's the out of office chat. 

[00:17:25] I was a musician growing up. And I love having that kind of creative outlet. 

[00:17:29] And as I became an entrepreneur juggling two organizations., I was being a little stressed out. 

[00:17:35] I felt like I was feeling a little backed up in terms of my creativity.

Balancing Family and Hobbies

[00:17:38] Edwin Romero: So I wanted to do something. But my time was already so scrunched between being a family man, having a toddler, running two businesses. 

[00:17:45] And trying to keep my sanity. 

[00:17:46] So I'm like, what can I do that's relatively low effort? That I know will be rewarding? 

[00:17:51] And I started doing this podcast. So basically the podcast is me talking through what i've been up to in my life.

Books and Movies as Hobbies

[00:17:58] Edwin Romero: And you know, in the immediate. 

[00:18:00] And it's funny because it's turning into more of a review into books and movies. 

[00:18:03] Because that's what I end up doing. Those are like my hobbies now. Books, movies, and of course like everything I do with my, my, my wife and my son, soccer practice. 

[00:18:10] Hanging out here, playing, imagination.

[00:18:12] It's all phenomenal. 

[00:18:13] But you know what, the one, one thing that remains static is every evening I just read a book. I read a book, and I wind down the day that way. 

[00:18:20] It's been phenomenal as a de stressor. And the podcast goes into kind of the stuff that I've been reading how I've been applying it.

Exploring Unique Reads

[00:18:26] Edwin Romero: It's some self help books, but even that, is a little, it burns you out. 

[00:18:29] Because you take something in, and you start thinking, I have to apply X, Y, Z, I have to apply X, Y, Z. 

[00:18:34] I combine a lot of like non a lot of fiction stuff that reads like fiction. I recently got done reading a book called Red Notice. 

[00:18:39] Which was about a gentleman who went into Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union. To start his investment company.

[00:18:45] And for when he's there he faces like a whole bunch of opposition from like oligarchs in the in the country. And him trying to maneuver through the economy there.

[00:18:52] I thought that was a phenomenal read. 

[00:18:54] A couple of Months back, I read another book about... I'm not sure, it's a little bit woo ish. 

[00:18:58] But out of body experiences. Where individuals find themselves leaving their bodies. 

[00:19:02] And this gentleman, Robert Monroe, he studied he was able to do it regularly. 

[00:19:05] So he amassed several journals on him trying to do it. 

[00:19:07] And it's It's pretty wild how how often it occurs in, in my circles.

[00:19:11] So I'm talking to somebody and it's hey, have you ever felt the vibrations? And they're like, oh my gosh, yeah. I felt them like I was a kid. 

[00:19:17] So it's really wild, how often it surfaces. 

Multiverse and De-stressing

[00:19:19] Edwin Romero: Right now I'm reading a book about actually no, my next podcast episode is going to be about Funnily enough, the multiverse.

[00:19:24] I've read a book called The Midnight Library. 

[00:19:27] Now, I finished watching Everything Everywhere All at Once, and I'm reading like when the idea or the concept of the multiverse came up. 

[00:19:33] I'm looking at the history and some of the lore around that, and it's not SEO specific, but I think it's really fun. 

[00:19:38] And it's a way, it's a really great way to de stress amidst like my circumstances.

[00:19:42] Crystal Waddell: Yeah, absolutely. I love that. I'd love to hear how people spend their time. 

[00:19:46] And I'm I was always an athlete growing up, but what most people didn't know is that I would spend my Friday nights reading. 

[00:19:52] Mainly because my dad, and I know you're listening, dad, but my dad didn't really want me to go anywhere, ever.

[00:19:57] So I read a lot as a child and I still love to read. So it's inspiring in a way that's how you decompress and de stress. 

[00:20:04] Because it's like, yeah, that sounds like a perfect like weekend to me is finding, a great book that kind of takes your mind off of it. 

[00:20:11] And since we're telling stories here, one of the things I like to do to de stress is actually watch Jeopardy.

[00:20:17] And So it's like my mind is always racing but there's something about jeopardy that really slows it down. And I usually learn something. 

[00:20:24] But whenever i'm feeling really overwhelmed, especially at dinner I asked my husband to put on jeopardy and we watched two or three episodes in a row.

[00:20:31] That's really cool. 

[00:20:32] Yeah, it's a fun little way to deal with stress, I don't know. 

[00:20:37] Edwin Romero: You have to, right? I think we're, you and I were both juggling businesses. 

[00:20:40] And you have to find a way to like slow things down. 

Transition from Corporate to Entrepreneurship

[00:20:42] Crystal Waddell: Yeah, so you left a corporate job in seo and now you are an entrepreneur in seo. How is the stress of the two different? 

[00:20:51] Edwin Romero: Yeah. 

[00:20:52] For one, I was managing people. At my corporate job, about three years ago. 

[00:20:56] I loved it. 

[00:20:57] And I carried that with me going into like My independent consultancy. 

[00:21:00] I loved Being able to teach people. Educate. 

[00:21:03] And I think it got to a point where people called me Professor Edwin at my corporate job.

[00:21:08] Yeah, because I had these training sessions. 

[00:21:10] That part I absolutely adored and I've done some webinars on my own as an independent. 

[00:21:14] But there's so many other responsibilities as an independent. 

[00:21:17] I think the stresses from corporate are more akin to they're more around managing people. 

[00:21:22] But because I was in management, I also had to manage up.

[00:21:25] So I had to deal with my directors and VPs. 

[00:21:29] And then I also had to get businesses, not just for myself, so I remained billable. 

[00:21:33] But I also had to make sure my team was billable. So that meant going out and working with other business lines to see if they needed SEO support. To come and bring that work into our group and then make sure that they're billable above a certain percentage.

[00:21:44] So that part was pretty stressful. The people management part was probably my favorite and the education as well. 

Challenges of Independent Consultancy

[00:21:49] Edwin Romero: Now the stresses I have now or like the difficulties. Are more around... 

[00:21:53] my wife actually applauded me for this. She's like when your back is against the wall, you find a way.

[00:21:56] And that's not where you have to have that mentality or it's if I don't, if I don't get business, how are we going to eat? 

[00:22:00] So it's that kind of rigor that helps me find clients. But you also have to manage things like, okay, you're your own finance person. You're your own PR person. You're your own HR. 

[00:22:09] You're your own legal.

[00:22:10] And then, you're juggling so many hats. And then you multiply that by two because I'm also helping our family business. So just strictly SEO, the community is really strong. 

[00:22:19] And thankfully then my network. I've built a pretty strong network where they're very supportive. Yourself included.

[00:22:24] Brighton was a great opportunity to meet people that I knew online. 

[00:22:27] I'm not sure if you know Jamar Ramos. Jamar is a phenomenal, he's just a phenomenal person. I was so glad to meet him. 

[00:22:33] He was so instrumental in helping me understand how to structure my proposals properly and what to think about.

[00:22:38] Jeff Romero. I think Jeff is based out of California, but he was also somebody that was in the commerce cloud space. 

[00:22:45] We became friends a couple of years ago. And he was kind enough to similar. He just offered advice on how to maneuver through certain engagements. 

[00:22:51] And how to structure proposals and whatnot. So the community is very strong. 

[00:22:55] And I'm a pretty firm believer, If if your intentions are really pure and you're really kind. 

[00:23:00] Then things will start happening. 

[00:23:01] And even then if you reach out to folks you put it out there. Folks are more than happy to end up helping hand.

[00:23:07] Oh Nick LeRoy is another one. 

[00:23:08] He was Just a really kind gentleman.

[00:23:10] Got the chance to meet him last year. And the list goes on and on. So even if you're faced with like certain, like difficulties or what may look like roadblocks, there's more than likely someone out there that, that can shed a light. 

[00:23:21] So, the differences are plentiful. I still like my situation much more. I get to juggle my lifestyle. Although the security, and I will say this. 

[00:23:29] The security of a corporate job. It's nice, right? You have that net. 

[00:23:32] You have health insurance. You have a steady salary. You work with more people, on a day to day, you're filled with teammates. 

[00:23:38] You can reach out to other folks the other disciplines. 

[00:23:41] So That part, I do miss.

[00:23:43] But I'm enjoying myself right now. I really am. 

[00:23:45] Crystal Waddell: Yeah, for sure. I'm just, I'm nodding because I can totally empathize with everything that you're saying. 

[00:23:51] It's really fun. 

Building an SEO Strategy

[00:23:52] Crystal Waddell: Shifting into some of this stuff that you've learned from other SEOs. 

[00:23:55] Because Jamar is somebody that I hope to have on the podcast at some point. 

[00:23:58] Because I've heard him speak and just, I thought what he had to say was really cool. 

[00:24:02] But learning from other people about building an SEO strategy, what have you learned there? What are some common mistakes that people might make? 

[00:24:11] Edwin Romero: I think the mistake folks make is SEO-ers come in and you know they try to fit in a previous strategy. And apply it to another brand. 

[00:24:18] And a couple of months ago. 

[00:24:19] I find myself, I had to build a couple of proposals. And I was guilty of it. 

[00:24:22] And I was like, all right, let me, I have this old proposal.

[00:24:24] Let me see if I can apply it to this new one. And you know what? It's funny because what it felt was taking this unique. Uniquely shaped object. 

[00:24:32] And then trying to place it into a container that didn't fit it. I struggled with it. 

[00:24:35] So that's how strategy is. You're taking something that is unique and a brand that with unique situations.

[00:24:40] And then if you try to mold it into something that doesn't, fit it. 

[00:24:43] Then it's going to be very uncomfortable for everybody involved. 

[00:24:45] For the SEO-ers, for the brand. And the clients. 

Tailoring Strategies to Unique Brands

[00:24:48] Edwin Romero: So making sure that the strategies are tailored uniquely to the brand's needs is critical. And. A pretty big component to that is starting with the customer.

[00:24:57] What is your brand selling? What does your customer want? And where are they in the purchasing cycle? 

[00:25:01] For example, I worked with a tool company last year they sold specialized tools and they have an added fan base really popular amongst folks that are outdoorsy. 

[00:25:09] As well as folks that work with work with their hands around the home.

[00:25:13] No. What they were finding is that market can be tapped out, everyone that knows and is an avid fan, you can corner that, that group. So how do you reach new audiences? 

[00:25:23] So that was their, problem. Their goal. Yeah, their goal. So that was their goal, was to reach new audiences.

[00:25:29] And so I, when I performed the audit, I was like. 

[00:25:32] Y'all aren't really explaining what your tools are meant for. You're not educating. So although it may have a different impact to organic search, it goes back into conversions to a degree, right? 

[00:25:42] Could because you're educating the audiences that are coming into the website. You're guiding them on the tool, the background, its purposes, how they can leverage it.

[00:25:49] So this guided selling approach where you're Coaxing everyone in. 

[00:25:52] Okay, you might like it for this. You might like it for that. And from there on out, I think what you can build in part is-

[00:25:58] I'm not sure if you're familiar with, it's like category, like a category grid, category product grid.

[00:26:02] So it's pretty common around e com sites. 

[00:26:04] Where like you have a parent level category, right? 

[00:26:06] But You can't dive into the product grid. 'cause it's overwhelming. You have too many products all at once. 

[00:26:11] So a really good tactic to use is split up those subcategories on a parent category.

[00:26:15] If your parent category is about, let's say watches. 

[00:26:19] And your audience sees a whole bunch of watches, that's great, but they're inundated with information and they don't know how to behave. 

[00:26:24] So rather. chop up watches into men's watches, women's watches, kids watches, so on and so forth. 

[00:26:29] Or if you're on like a men's watches parent category. 

[00:26:32] Go with brown watches, go with chic watches, go with formal watches or analog watches.

[00:26:37] So break it up a little bit more. So that it's more consumable and users have a better idea of how to navigate. 

[00:26:42] So that's what I mean about creating something a little bit more tailored to your audiences. 

[00:26:46] Now the tactic, of course, you can use across various websites. 

[00:26:49] But you're building out subcategories or these grid links. 

[00:26:52] So that it's a little bit more digestible, a little bit more custom.

[00:26:55] Crystal Waddell: Oh, my gosh. That is so helpful because again, from the entrepreneur perspective, I just built the thing. You know what I mean? 

[00:27:02] I didn't come with a strategy or come with a layout or any kind of organization. 

[00:27:06] And if you didn't know, I help parents celebrate their kids and their sports careers.

[00:27:10] What I didn't realize was that, like you said, here's a bunch of ideas for different sports. 

[00:27:14] That was overwhelming for the parent who was coming there to celebrate their kid who played football. Or volleyball or track. They're like is this for me?

[00:27:22] Because this isn't necessarily my kid's sport. If I see a football player, does my track self really connect with that? 

[00:27:29] And so then I had to make those categories, but I never fully understand how to make that. A visual representation. And it's so simple the way that you put it, but I never did that, and so I'm so excited to go back and not only do it for my website, but to share it with my SEO squad. 

[00:27:45] My SEO support group and just share with them, like how you could organize this in a really easy.

[00:27:51] Easily digestible, easy to see and understand way. 

[00:27:56] Like just in a split second, you have it right there in front of you. A lot of information, but organized in a way that's yeah, duh. That makes sense. 

[00:28:03] Edwin Romero: Yeah. And you know what, it goes back to the conversion optimization question earlier. That's a huge part of it.

[00:28:08] How do you prepare? How do you make sure that your users is getting the most optimal experience so that they're not, you know, overwhelmed? 

[00:28:14] Crystal Waddell: Yeah, I think that's one of the best questions to ask as you're setting up your site map. 

[00:28:19] Or setting up, how you want your layout to go.

[00:28:21] And I don't think most people do that, because not because they don't care about their user. 

[00:28:27] But just because the concept of a website is just put the information out there and then the people will come. 

[00:28:33] And then it's not until later that you realize, okay, either they're not coming at all and you have to fix it or number two.

[00:28:39] They're coming in, but they're getting stuck for some reason. 

[00:28:41] And it's really because you didn't lay it out.

[00:28:44] Edwin Romero: I agree.

[00:28:44] Crystal Waddell: Let's talk about the steps of it, that, that grid idea.

[00:28:48] Every week I do something called follow through Friday. I don't know if you've seen those episodes. 

[00:28:52] But what I like to do is take some piece of advice that you've given during the episode. 

[00:28:57] And implement it for my business so that people can actually see me doing it and then, see how they can maybe apply it to their business.

[00:29:04] So I'm definitely going to do that. 

[00:29:05] But I wanted to make sure that I highlighted that point that you said. 

[00:29:09] That the SEO strategy, has to change, like the shape changes for every business. Like you can take some of the tactics that people are talking about. 

[00:29:17] And, take those pieces and then put it into your own SEO strategy.

[00:29:21] But a lot of people that I've met, they're like, tell me exactly how to do it. 

[00:29:25] And what you're sharing is. Here's the mindset of how to do it. 

[00:29:28] And I really appreciate that. 

[00:29:30] Edwin Romero: Yeah, no worries. No worries. 

Learning and Growing as an Entrepreneur

[00:29:31] Edwin Romero: Strategy isn't something that, that came easy to me early on.

[00:29:34] And I think I appreciated way more for after a couple of things, including me being promoted to a manager. Me trying to retain business. 

[00:29:42] But also as being on my own, me trying to get business. I think also a lot of phenomenal books out there have helped me understand it much better.

[00:29:50] Some of the common ones product led SEO was a really good way to look at at products or SEO through the lens of the product. 

[00:29:56] And tailor a strategy around that. But then even non SEO books as well. 

[00:30:00] The books I've read over the last several years have been instrumental in helping me grow. There you go. I have a list. I have an Excel list. 

[00:30:06] The Lean Startup. There you go. The Lean Startup was an amazing book. 

[00:30:08] Crystal Waddell: Oh, yeah. 

[00:30:09] Edwin Romero: The Lean Startup was phenomenal.

[00:30:10] Start with Why is another phenomenal book that I, that made me begin asking questions like, why are we doing this? To what ends? And honestly, with what means? 

[00:30:18] And then a lot of other stuff helps me grow as a kind of a leader, as a thought leader. Ego free leadership was a great one. The science of growth, which was also modern.

[00:30:27] It's like the Lean Startup. 

[00:30:28] Where it began to examine these tech companies and why everyone's like, well, Facebook got big because they just were at the right place at the right time. It's yes and no. 

[00:30:36] But the reason, one of the reasons why they got big was through various iterations. 

[00:30:40] Like the lean, how the lean startup covers it.

[00:30:41] But with these iterations, they were basically able to drop the fat and grow and maneuver through the market in their own way. In a successful way.

[00:30:49] So Strategy for me, yeah, the experience has helped, but also the theory that I learned through reading and applying that was also instrumental.

[00:30:57] Crystal Waddell: Wow, this is so awesome. I'm like I could again. I can't wait to talk to you again Are you going to be in san diego this fall? 

[00:31:04] Edwin Romero: You know what? 

[00:31:05] Crystal Waddell: My wife and I 

[00:31:05] Edwin Romero: my wife and I are expecting our second. Yay. 

[00:31:08] Crystal Waddell: Congratulations Thank 

[00:31:09] Edwin Romero: you, and he's due at the end of may so we have some time.

[00:31:13] I'm not sure yet I want to go I want to go but also I'm not sure With one toddler, it's a lot. Having two little bodies running around or two little bodies to take care of might be tougher. 

[00:31:22] Crystal Waddell: Yeah, for sure. Okay. If someone wants to connect with you further, what's the best way for them to do that?

[00:31:28] Edwin Romero: They can do it through my LinkedIn. They can visit my website. There's a contact form.

[00:31:32] Feel free to reach out to me. Always happy to have a conversation. 

[00:31:34] Crystal Waddell: Okay, I will drop all those links in the show notes for sure.

[00:31:37] Edwin, thank you so much. This was like inspiring in a way. Definitely informative, but I can't wait to go back and listen and figure out what exactly I'm going to do to apply to my business. 

[00:31:47] It might be more than one thing because you just gave us so many like practical and tactical things that we can do to just, get better online.

[00:31:55] So thank you. 

[00:31:56] Edwin Romero: Thank you for having me Crystal. This was great. I really appreciate the kind words. 

[00:31:59] Crystal Waddell: Yeah. And not just get better online, but get better as a business owner and an entrepreneur, you're right. To educate yourself in these ways. 

[00:32:06] And just to be able to give yourself a bigger view of theory and just ideas.

[00:32:10] That was great too. So thank you. All right. I'll see you on LinkedIn. 

[00:32:14] All right, guys. See you next time.